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I helped Google screw over James Damore (self.JamesDamore)
submitted by TiredOfLying4Google
I was involved in the internal decisions involving James Damore's memo, and it's terrible what we did to him.
First of all, we knew about the memo a month before it went viral. HR sent it up the reporting chain when he gave it as internal feedback, but we did nothing. There wasn't anything we could do, except admit to wrongdoing and lying to our employees. We just hoped that no one else would see his document.
Unfortunately, the memo started spreading within the company. The floodgates opened and previously silent employees started talking. To quell dissent, we: told executives to write to their employees condemning the memo; manipulated our internal Memegen to bias the ratings towards anti-Damore posts (the head of Memegen is an "ally" to the diversity cause); and gave every manager talking points on what to tell their reports about the memo. In all our communications, we concentrated on how hurt employees purportedly were and diverted attention from Google's discriminatory employment practices and political hegemony, never mind the science.
We needed to make an example of Damore. Looking for some excuse to fire him, we spied on his phone and computer. We didn't find anything, although our spying probably made his devices unusably slow, preventing him from organizing support within the company. When we did fire him, our reputation and integrity took a hit, but at least other employees were now afraid to speak up.
Firing him without an NDA was a huge risk though. He was a top performer and knew too many compromising secrets, like Dragonfly, the secret censored search project in China. He had also reported several legally dubious practices in Search that still exist. Only God knows why he never leaked Dragonfly or the other issues, but I think it's because he actually cared about Google.
Our response after we fired him was equally disgraceful. We were supposed to have a Town Hall TGIF to answer employees' questions about the controversy. However, after questions started coming in that we couldn't reasonably answer, we had to cancel it. We shifted the blame onto "alt-right trolls" and have avoided talking about it openly since then.
To control the narrative, we planted stories with journalists and flexed Google's muscles where necessary. In exchange for insider access and preferential treatment, all we ask for is their loyalty. For online media, Google's ads pay their paycheck and our search brings their customers, so our influence shouldn't be underestimated.
We dealt with his NLRB case in a similar way. People are ultimately lazy, so we found a sympathetic lawyer in the NLRB and wrote the internal NLRB memo for her. No one wanted to spend the effort to oppose it, despite it being laughably weak. Then, after Damore dropped his NLRB case and filed a class action lawsuit, we had the NLRB publicly release their memo. Our PR firms sent press releases saying "the NLRB ruled the firing legal", which was, of course, manufactured bullshit.
All of our scheming was over the phone, in deleted emails, or through an external PR firm, so we can deny all of it. Now that we've forced him into arbitration, we're close to screwing him over completely.
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[–]James_Damore 332 points  
Whoah, this would explain a lot.
I can't verify its authenticity, but the OP is correct that I was one of about 100 employees that knew about Dragonfly. I also did report several legal issues in Search that they probably haven't fixed. My phone and computer were also extremely slow after the document went viral. Other parts of the post include knowledge that only a Googler would know.
u/TiredOfLying4Google please contact my lawyer, Harmeet Dhillon.
[–]justwasted 18 points  
James, please keep fighting the good fight against Google. It may seem hyperbolic, but I truly feel that if Google continues along its current trajectory, they will become a tyranny of a sort the world has never known. The independent thought of generations depends upon course-correcting Google now.
[–]kamtsa 21 points  
Other parts of the post include knowledge that only a Googler would know
Examples?
[–]James_Damore 72 points  
Some examples that aren't public knowledge:
the head of Memegen is an "ally" to the diversity cause
gave every manager talking points on what to tell their reports about the memo
our spying probably made his devices unusably slow, preventing him from organizing support within the company
[–]humanoid451 15 points  
our spying probably made his devices unusably slow, preventing him from organizing support within the company
Are you sure you never mentioned the slowness issue publicly or even internally? I know I had my doubts before about how they spied on you, but that is resolved as you explained Google can install software at will on your devices.
So for this person to know it caused slowness and for you to verify it, says they indeed have some intimate knowledge.
edit: just want to be sure, sorry to sound repetitive. This is a key point that can authenticate the claim.
[–]James_Damore 33 points  
I don't remember ever telling people that my devices were slowed.
[–]bernibear 22 points  
The guy made the account and spent about 3 weeks deciding to post or not. Crazy shit. May truth find it’s day in the light.
You all create some tools, weapons you could say, that are the most dangerous thing humanity has seen.
[–]MSM4Cucks 3 points  
Dude you did on Joe Rogan’s show! I remember you saying that explicitly!
[–]DryTransportation0 6 points  
You did in a early interview mention your phone was acting weird and you thought it could be spying.
You appearently forgot but i promise you did say something similar.
edit: It might have been a interview in which you were in your room but i am not 100% on this could have been a different interview.
edit: i am currently listening to the Gad Saad interview at 2x to see if thats the one.
edit: not Gad interview , now checking Molyneux at 3x.
edit: not Molyneux, now checking Peterson at 3x.
edit: not peterson, checking karen straughan.
edit: not Karen Straughan, i´ll try Rubin And Rogan tomorrow.
[–]Squibbolata 8 points  
Molyneux is naturally at 0.75 so this makes sense.
[–]ethtirlomalral 2 points  
Ha, ain't that the truth!
[–]SAPStopAllProduction 9 points  
On the Joe Rogan Experience he mentions that his phone did a reset randomly or something like that.
[–]SlightlyCyborg 4 points  
Computers can watch a video faster than you.
search.jordanbpeterson.com could help. (although the captioning seems a bit off on the main video about damore). I made one of these for Molyneux as well, but he didn't pay me like Peterson did, so fuck'm.
I'd love to do one for Joe, but he doesn't have autocaption turned on.
[–]MSM4Cucks 3 points  
He said it on Joe Rogan’s Podcast
[–]TravisO 9 points  
I don't find it eye opening a company can spy on Windows computers but what should scare anybody that Google can install spying software on your phone as that's suppose to be a secure sandbox device, which it obviously isn't.
[–]humanoid451 12 points  
If you have an Android device, the corp admins can override the security to spy on employees. Since Google owns Android, they might have even more powers than are documented externally to spy on their own employees.
One of the things this policy app can do is enable "application auditing".
[–]DaayTerkErJerbs 3 points  
Patiently waiting for the day we can have smart phones powered by various Linux distros that can be swapped at will so Google software isn't located anywhere on the device.
[–]humanoid451 2 points  
I used to run Cyanogenmod back in the day and it was fun. It is now known as LineageOS, but I haven't tried it and can't vouch for it.
This won't help you if you are a corp employee though. The company admins can require the policy app to be installed, and that will require a specific OS.
[–]sleepingbeautyc 1 point  
I had to switch back to android for Pokemon go.
[–]WassermanSchultz 2 points  
LineageOS? Try r/degoogle for other options.
[–]scoredsky 2 points  
How are you positive that you were being spied on?
[–]EvanGRogers 8 points  
Why don't you Edward Snowden those cunts?
[–]richmomz 1 point  
Got any interesting stories about Project Dragonfly that aren’t public knowledge? Without violating any NDA clauses of course.
[–]Humble_Explanation 165 points  
I'm a Googler and can confirm what the OP has said about Memegen, Damore's performance and knowledge of Dragonfly, and the BS reasons given for cancelling the Town Hall.
[–]TechnoWoman 65 points  
+1. Whoever wrote this had intimate knowledge of Google.
Unfortunately, this is all probably true.
[–]angryatevery 31 points  
All of the media manipulation parts are right out of Google's playbook.
[–]Aurvandel 13 points  
Do either of you two have offsite emails? (proton, tutanota, etc)
[–]barfbagofjustice 11 points  
Can either of you offer any proof that you're Googlers? I'd thought to check your post history, but it appears that both of you, as well as a bunch of people with supportive replies -- e.g. /u/TechnoWoman, /u/angryatevery, /u/Ragnarok -- have only ever commented on this one story.
As an example of evidence you work at Google, who created the go/opensoruce (note the typo) go-link? Even that info is probably trivial to get a hold of for a non-Googler. :)
Edit: added more people with no post history except this post.
[–]kchoze 30 points  
I sympathize with your skepticism. At the same time, if I had a 6-figure salary working in Google or a corporate PR firm, the last thing I'd want to do is endanger it by posting something something incriminating on my employer on Reddit that can be tracked back to me. So throwaway accounts can be expected.
[–]JaziTricks 31 points  
I can't verify its authenticity, but the OP is correct that I was one of about 100 employees that knew about Dragonfly. I also did report several legal issues in Search that they probably haven't fixed. Other parts of the post include knowledge that only a Googler would know.
Problem is people's jobs are under threat.
You cannot outlaw dissent and then ask dissenters and whistleblowers to identify themselves.
[–]barfbagofjustice 1 point  
Verifying the author of the go-link is trivial and won't identify any of these posters.
[–]spazzydee 6 points  
access to go-links is logged, like anything else
[–]barfbagofjustice 1 point  
You don’t need to click on it, you can simply page through recent go links. It’s near the front of recent links. No need to page through more than a couple recent pages :-) thousands of people will have done so today.
[–]oldforstocks 2 points  
Your account is 1 day old. Not going to buy you
[–]habanero_ass_fire 42 points  
Even though this is obviously written by either a current or ex-Googler, strictly speaking that's not a guarantee that any of it actually happened.
That said, as a former Googler myself I find this account believable. The internal atmosphere for anyone who disagrees with any aspect of the current liberal dogma is quite suffocating, and there are significant numbers of very vocal people who just post SJW bullshit on internal Google+ and seemingly do little else. The list of grievances and positions labeled as wrongthink grows more and more ridiculous by the day. Attacks on people who disagree intensify. Because manufactured outrage culture is rewarded by making a person essentially non-fireable (especially if they're female and/or black and/or LGBTQ), offense is taken liberally, with lots of histrionics, and at the slightest provocation.
People deadass come into the office expecting to wage social justice war against their co-workers, who on the whole are quite sympathetic to the cause already, but may have slight disagreements along the more extreme margins, like James did. And no, as an employee you don't get a chance to ignore all of this BS. It's a constant, unending barrage that only gets worse over time.
[–]humanoid451 9 points  
Google stock will go up if they turn down internal Google+ and Memegen. They will reduce their legal liability, plus I imagine the company will be at least 10% more productive without them.
[–]habanero_ass_fire 12 points  
I think memegen is a net positive. Or at least it was when I was there, I imagine 90% of the memes are about "orange man bad" now. It provides an outlet for people to vent, and I'm pretty sure none of the top execs ever go there (or they are hidden from the leaderboard). What's not to like. People get to vent, execs get to ignore the venting because it's not "serious". And any content outside the accepted narrative never rises to the top anyway.
[–]humanoid451 8 points  
Well, okay, but it sounds horrible to me. I would hate working at a company where I know a large percent of people do nothing but post memes and other rants all day, and in fact get rewarded for it, becoming known as SJW heroes that get dissenters fired.
[–]habanero_ass_fire 11 points  
It's not actually a "large percentage". It's probably less than a hundred people total and a bunch of less vocal "allies", which are still not the majority. But disagreeing with them even in the slightest inevitably brings on intense brigading, and often reports to HR as well. You'd be surprised what a fat six figure paycheck and a substantial RSU grant can do to a person if they have a family to support. You keep your head down and your mouth shut. And then you go out and vote straight conservative. Not that it matters in most states where Google operates.
[–]TotesMessenger 25 points  
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[–]66903972 23 points  
The D knows what’s up
[–]Silent_As_The_Grave_ 20 points  
We usually do.
[–]66903972 13 points  

RealNews

[–]yelloWhit 7 points  
Plus respect for honest discussion, debate, & disagreement. I’ve yet to see an honest dissenting question or opinion banned.
[–]Emotes_For_Days 7 points  
People sometimes think our memes are shouting over the discussion, but really it's why we're all there. Laughing while saving this half of the world is the best.
[–]66903972 3 points  
Memes are great are conveying concepts in a short and often funny way.
Don’t ever stop memeing, not even for Schumer who flop-flops more than Pelosi’s saggy cans.
[–]Kill_All_Bots_ 39 points  
Would you be willing to testify in Damore's case against Google? I strongly feel that you have a moral obligation to do so. If I were in your shoes, I don't think I'd be able to forgive myself for not trying to rectify the situation, regardless of how much actual culpability was on my shoulders.
[–]MakeMuricaGreat 17 points  
Nobody has a moral obligation to commit suicide. This is a nice FYI piece, but seriously better talk to an indepedent lawyer before reaching out to help Damore.
[–]66903972 8 points  
Talk to Harneet. She’s bad ass.
[–]angryatevery 59 points  
I used to work in the media and now am in a corporate PR firm. This is totally Google's MO. It's well known in my field that Google is the most vicious and cut throat when they go after someone.
[–]TechnoWoman 5 points  
Who else have they gone after?
[–]the_nybbler 21 points  
Amit Singhal, for one.
[–]humanoid451 3 points  
How did Google go after Amit Singhal?
[–]the_nybbler 8 points  
They leaked the circumstances of his departure, including the outcome of a Human Resources investigation. It seems most likely they did this to get Uber to fire him.
[–]angryatevery 23 points  
Google funds much of Facebook's bad press and has gone after Steve Ballmer and Andrew Torba specifically.
[–]bartturner 10 points  
Link?
[–]lumencognitio 14 points  
The most disgusting evildoing can be done by the most conscious mind. Stupid evils are nowhere as dangerous as smart evils. Engineer, scientist, academician are still human in the end.
[–]weirdly_prompt 28 points  
Memegen's TL was definitely a "Diversity Ally" https://plus.google.com/+ColinMcMillen
[–]RedSocks157 2 points  
He looks...exactly what I thought he would look like hahaha
[–]Ragnarokok 26 points  
I've heard similar stories about how other big tech companies deal with controversies. It's crazy how much control they have over our lives and our perception of the world.
It's not wonder Google is the biggest lobbyist in the country
[–]khelvaster 40 points  
+1 from personal knowledge of Google contractors/employees. This is absurd.
[–]frankenboobehs 7 points  
+1 from personal knowledge of Google contractors/employees. This is absurd.
Google contractor/employee says it's not true..........what else would you do? Admit you screwed over the guy and ruined his life?
[–]weirdly_prompt 3 points  
What's absurd about it?
[–]khelvaster 23 points  
Google's behavior, as mentioned by this post.
[–]Ragnarokok 23 points  
That's sort of the point. Google's behavior was detestable.
Remember, low level employees don't know how Google's lawyers and PR teams operate. Google's propaganda machine is pointed on its employees just as much as its pointed on the world.
[–]bartturner 2 points  
Think he is more saying this post is not believable.
[–]yelloWhit 5 points  
When asked what’s absurd, he responded that Google’s behavior was absurd.
[–]stationhollow 2 points  
I don't think that is what the original comment was saying. I think he was calling the behaviour by Google absurd.
[–]kmjohnson3 16 points  
I always knew that the nlrb memo was crap and that they were pressured to release it. I didn't know that Damore knew about Dragonfly though!
[–]Raptorbite 17 points  
show us some proof that what you just said should be taken as something more than just "another story to fit with one political agenda". because if what you are saying is true, this will rock the entire online space. so please, show some proof.
[–]bartturner 5 points  
There won't be any.
[–]humanoid451 12 points  
our spying probably made his devices unusably slow, preventing him from organizing support within the company.
Can you explain what you did technically to spy on his devices? And don't just say something like a "virus". I'm looking for detail on how you broke into his devices and installed spyware, what exactly this spyware did, and why it might make his devices slow. And what devices are those? Windows, Linux, Mac, iPhone, Android?
This is the one part that seems made up to me, but if you can provide a technical explanation for it, I will believe you. Right now, I do not though. Most of what is in your message can be picked up in the press, with a lucky guess on Dragonfly.
[–]James_Damore 18 points  
My phone and computer both had my corporate accounts on them and Google has been known to spy on its employees (e.g. to avoid leaks). When the document went viral, my phone updated all of its internal apps at once (which had never happened before) and both my devices became extremely slow.
I don't know the technical details of how Google would spy on devices though.
[–]humanoid451 8 points  
Thanks.
That particular detail has been mentioned in the press already, and would lead me to believe even more that the post is made up. But if the OP can provide detail outside of what you have already said, I could change my mind.
“All the internal apps updated at the same time, which had never happened before. I had to re-sign in to my Google account on both devices and my Google Drive – where the document was – stopped working.”
edit: I can't find public press about the devices being slow, so far, so I'm starting to believe the OP actually knows something.
[–]keskejefousici 6 points  
Why are you all (those asking for evidence) conveniently ignoring the other relevant details, starting with Damore's knowledge of Dragonfly, which was definitely not made public ?
[–]humanoid451 5 points  
I didn't ignore it: I said it could be a lucky guess. If you had to pick some controversial Google project that's been in the press a lot to make your story sound good, you would pick Dragonfly. And perhaps they got lucky.
What is more compelling to me is the knowledge that the devices were made to be slow from the spyware. I have not so far found any public knowledge of that, so my mind is changing.
[–]NATkattt 3 points  
I don't think spyware is really the right term here. It makes it sound like it's unusual and novel for a company to monitor it's employees' activities on company devices. It's not. How actively most companies use it on the average or the exceptional employee, I do not know, but the capability is commonplace. It is likely part of Google's MDM (Mobile Device Management) software. It could also be a custom internal MDM with additional capabilities that they do not offer to their corporate customers.
I am surprised that it was poorly implemented enough that it significantly slowed down his devices and that his phone provided notification of the internal apps being updated. Also that all the updates were done at one time which could predictably cause suspicion, but that's also not exactly what James said. It could be that he went into app settings and noticed new version numbers or something of that nature.
I suppose it's also the case that Google isn't really trying to covertly spy with the software. You know they have access to all of that, and it's in your employment contract, so they don't really need to hide it. It's something they have the right to do.
Anyway, what may have slowed down his devices was the additional data being uploaded to Google's MDM server in the background everytime he sent a message or took a photo etc.
I would be surprised if they didn't "spy" on him because that's basically standard operating procedure for larger corporations. That part is really sort of a non-issue. Like it or not, you agree to this sort of surveillance when accepting a job.
[–]yelloWhit 1 point  
It looks like there are people in the comments looking for proof/details & there are people looking to cover some butts. My guess is, the overly aggressive commenters are trying to do some desperate/panicked butt covering. Immediate dismissal of this post & thread just isn’t possible. How on earth could someone know for absolute certain this is BS? They can’t.
Say hi to google. I’m sure they’re here.
[–]Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip 1 point  
We use GApps for our company and we can set corporate policies that are enforced on the phones. It's obviously limited, but I can only imagine the control Google themselves have over equipment they issue. I would think it was Google issued, or at least it had to be locked down to a degree to access Google networks/corporate infrastructure.
[–]jimdagem 12 points  
Do you have any proof?
[–]Squibbolata 3 points  
A testimony under oath is a form of proof, since perjury would be criminal. Particularly from a credible source with no unreasonable conflicts
[–]keskejefousici 14 points  
It all sounds true. Let's hope it won't get deleted soon.
[–]keskejefousici 11 points  
[–]myusername3333 9 points  

This Post Is Probably Bullshit, Here's Why

This post is more likely than not bullshit. Let's go through a variety of reasons why. I can't make a 100% "fool-proof" claim that it is bullshit, but no one here can 100% prove anything about this story either because OP did such a shit job proving anything. I will just be laying out what I know, have learned, and what about this post smells awful.

What Do I Know About Google?

(If you don't care/trust what I claim to know about the internal workings of Google, then jump to the next section. I also wouldn't trust the random stuff someone anonymously posts on the Internet, so why trust me? You can decide for yourself, or skip it and read where I only address OPs stuff).
First, I also know Googlers, and one of them presented what they know what likely happened, and how this post doesn't line up with what they know about Google.
Damore claims his phone was slow the day his document went viral, which was subsequently around the same time he was fired. There is a more benign reason his "phone was being slow", which was that Google was doing a standard procedure of wiping the work profile from his phone. This would cause the apps to suddenly disappear and the other things Damore described. However, there would have been a notification on his phone, too, saying this was happening. Maybe Damore forgot this, or maybe he is purposefully omitting that fact. We can't know, but here is some technical information about how work profiles work on Android phones from a friend I know that works at Google.
enterprise management on Android is gated by literal app permissions
Just like an app can request access to your call log or some shit, enterprise apps request admin permissions
There are 3: DEVICE_ADMINISTRATOR, PROFILE_OWNER, and DEVICE_OWNER
DEVICE_ADMINISTRATOR makes it look like you've just got another account on the phone. It lets the app enforce things like a strong unlock code and allows for factory resetting the device
PROFILE_OWNER is weird from a normal Android perspective. It makes a new "profile" (under the hood, a new Android *user*) where it keeps work stuff separate.
The idea here is that the management app controls the entire profile, so it can do things that cannot be done to the primary profile
For example, it works with the Play Store app to ensure that only certain apps can be installed. This is nice for enterprises because it can, for example, prevents bad apps from scraping contacts and calendar.
the "profile wipe", it's really just a factory reset command (like what we can give in the DEVICE_ADMINISTRATOR) mode, but it behaves differently. The platform interprets a factory reset command from the work profile as "make this profile go away right now" and so it does the thing.
This is incredibly noticeable. You get a notification, there's a a notable lack of briefcase-badged apps suddenly.
As an implementation detail of work profile, you also get one Google Play Services instance running per profile, which may slow you down if your phone sucks.
See: the Nexus 5X we gave to the whole company a few years back.
DEVICE_OWNER is weird and probably not worth mentioning, but it gives admins significant control over a device. The caveat is that it can only be entered from the setup wizard and the only way to get out is by factory resetting.
DEVICE_OWNER enables lots of features customers might not want, which is why it comes with some scary fucking warnings and is a pain in the ass to get into.
This is how profiles work on the phone, and how a work profile is separated from the user's own profile. That said, my friend frequently admits the all this stuff really isn't all that great; it has some bugs and doesn't work smoothly. Sometimes Google will suddenly deauth your device, and you have to log back in. It has happened to me, it has happened to my friend, and it is likely what has happened to Damore. This is why on the day his phone was wiped of Corporate data, it seemed slow. This process is supposed to be fast and is designed to complete ASAP. As a potential side-affect, you may have to log back in.
Furthermore, such wipes are common and Damore almost certainly got a factory reset which isn't anything fancy.
it isn't clear that Damore had a work profile, but if he had one, then this would be the likely explanation for his phone being slow/wonky.
Sure, it is possible that a backdoor exists that my friend, nor ANYONE, knows about. It is however quite telling that no one has found one nor claimed to be affected by one until today.
HOWEVER, even if we ignore all these technical details, his phone being slow is such a non-event. It is weird that OP would even know this, or "probably made his phone slow". Why would it "probably" have made the phone slow? That doesn't make sense. Either OP knows it was made slow, or not. Maybe OP has heard it "sometimes makes the phone slow" but it is a really weird thing to claim. How does OP seem to know this information? Why would they even know it? Why are they uncertain in knowing? It is just really inconsistent.
Lastly, WHY IN THE WORLD would Google make its spying bullshit so slow as to be noticeable to the victim? We are to believe that Google is a massive, evil, highly coordinated bully that is super smart, but it fucks up this part so obviously? Comon. That just smells like bullshit.

Let's Go Through All the Claims Made by OP

First of all, we knew about the memo a month before it went viral
Well obviously, because Damore sent it to HR. This is a really weird way to start this whole post, and my guess is it is supposed to make it sound scary "google knows everything you do/think". I bring this up because the framing/narrative of the post is important: it is (ironically) heavily biased to make Damore look like a hero and Google the big baddie. I am pointing it out to help emphasize how much of it is just fluff, and not interesting, unique, or new info.
There wasn't anything we could do, except admit to wrongdoing and lying to our employees. We just hoped that no one else would see his document.
This also doesn't make sense. The memo didn't expose "wrongdoing", it tried to say the current practices were not correctly aligned with the goals of equality, and should be changed to better include women (if we are being realllllly generous to his memo, which I normally wouldn't be). As I recall, his memo was not about calling out Google lying, and wasn't the central focus. Again, this line is an awkward way to open and makes me think the author is trying to make Google sound way more evil. It just doesn't make sense on its face.
told executives to write to their employees condemning the memo;
Yes, because Google didn't believe in its contents, and Google wanted to present a clear front how it didn't align with their principles. I don't see how this is necessarily malicious. Any and every company would do this when one of its employees posts something so obviously damaging that got leaked.
manipulated our internal Memegen to bias the ratings towards anti-Damore posts (the head of Memegen is an "ally" to the diversity cause);
This is bizarre, but has been mentioned before and isn't "new" or "insider" information.
gave every manager talking points on what to tell their reports about the memo
Yes, because, again, Google didn't believe in the contents of the memo and believed it harmful/wrong. Of course they would provide guidance to managers on how Google perceives the memo. Employees may feel Google not giving a strong enough rebuttal therefore agrees with the memo, which would also cause people to quit. Look at the backlash against Google for Dragonfly and other secret projects that Googler's don't like: They threaten to quit. Google knows they need to present a consistent view of their positions/policies so employees don't come up with random garbage and quit for nonsensical reasons. It isn't surprising to me Google knew of this strategy then, and continues to use it.
(Pt 2 coming soon)
[–]habanero_ass_fire 10 points  
And here comes a Google shill and casually spends half an hour banging out a novel-sized post from his brand new account for no apparent reason. I take it this made it to eng-misc@ by now?
[–]myusername3333 0 points  
Lol, I just break it down for how obviously BS it is. You can refute the logic if you want, I didn't claim special Google knowledge for all of it. Just the first section.
But hey, if you want to believe a totally unsubstantiated post with no proof, no identity, and no nothing, then have it. You can believe whatever garbage you like.
I am posting for people who actually want to think about this. Could OP's post be true? Sure, but OP did nothing to prove any of the things they said.
[–]humanoid451 4 points  
Furthermore, such wipes are common and Damore almost certainly got a factory reset which isn't anything fancy.
Quoting the Guardian article:
He also described “weird things” happening to his work phone and laptop after the memo went viral. “All the internal apps updated at the same time, which had never happened before. I had to re-sign in to my Google account on both devices and my Google Drive – where the document was – stopped working.”
edit: emphasis added
[–]myusername3333 0 points  
Yes, that happens because all the work-related icons are being removed and it is refreshing the app home screen. Nothing weird. And of course it never happened before. It would only happen the one time he was fired.
[–]humanoid451 5 points  
You don't have the timeline right.
The weird things happened when the memo went viral.
He was fired much later, like days or weeks later. He wasn't talking about that in the Guardian article. You can tell because he was able to re-sign back in to his Google account. You can't do that if you are fired.
[–]myusername3333 1 point  
The memo is dated July 2017 and was originally shared on an internal mailing list.[16][17] It was later updated with a preface affirming the author's opposition to workplace sexism and stereotyping.[18] On August 5, a version of the memo (omitting sources and graphs) was published by Gizmodo.[19] The memo's publication resulted in controversy across social media, and in public criticism of the memo and its author from some Google employees.[20][21][22] According to Wired, Google's internal forums showed some support for Damore, who said he received private thanks from employees who were afraid to come forward.[23][24][25]
Damore was fired remotely by Google on August 7, 2017.[26] The same day, prior to being fired, Damore filed a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board[27][28][29] (case no. 32-CA-203891[30]). The complaint is marked as "8(a)(1) Coercive Statements (Threats, Promises of Benefits, etc.)".[31][clarification needed] A subsequent statement from Google asserted that its executives were unaware of the complaint when they fired Damore; it is illegal to fire an employee in retaliation of an NLRB complaint.[12] Following his firing, Damore announced he would pursue legal action against Google.[32][33]
Nope. His memo was posted months before, but it didn't go viral (meaning, across the Internet/broader world) until it got to Gizmodo on Aug 5th. He was fired AUg 7th.
[–]humanoid451 4 points  
Thanks, you've proved my point. He was not fired when his devices got slow. He was fired later.
[–]myusername3333 0 points  
I highly doubt Damore remembers the full timeline perfectly. Nor is he necessarily being truthful in his retelling now.
As I said, it is a single possible, alternative explanation. I am not claiming that is what actually happened.
My post also examines how the "being slow" is a nothing-burger. It proves nothing and means nothing.
[–]humanoid451 7 points  
He signed back into his account. You can't do that if you are fired.
His memory is correct. Your speculation is wrong.
[–]myusername3333 0 points  
What makes you think he signed back in to his work account? He didn't give specifics. The most likely reasoning is that his work account auth tokens were rejected, and all the auth tokens for his regular Google accounts were, too. He was forced to log back into his regular Google accounts because he has them on his phone, too.
[–]humanoid451 6 points  
What makes you think he signed back in to his work account?
Because he didn't say anything about being locked out of his corporate account. If that happened (and it didn't), then it would be worth mentioning. It would be an interesting detail to share with a news publication like the Guardian. The fact that it is not there indicates he did successfully sign back into his account. So it happened sometime before being fired, and very likely indeed when the memo went viral as he said.
[–]myusername3333 5 points  
(pt. 2)
never mind the science
This is the MOST laughable line, and how I knew OP was almost certainly bullshit. Damore's "science" has been examined all over, and much of it has been rebutted quite strongly. I won't rehash this here because it isn't necessary, but there is a clear narrative here in adding this piece: OP is pretending like the memo was true/science, and is trying to convince you that Google ignored "the truth" and fired him. It is a great story, and reminscient of the false telling of Galileo. Damore didn't "find truth, and was fired for it". He posted a heavily biased document with poorly understood "science" and claimed it all true.
We needed to make an example of Damore. Looking for some excuse to fire him, we spied on his phone and computer. We didn't find anything, although our spying probably made his devices unusably slow, preventing him from organizing support within the company.
This line makes no sense. Damore was fired on the first business day of the memo being out (memo went out Saturday on Gizmodo first, Damore fired Monday). Damore was fired shortly after filing a complaint with the NLRB, which is definitely suspicious timing on his part. Filing the complaint right after your internal memo went viral, but before being fired? We already examined a plausible alternative for why his phone was slow, won't rehash.BUT, barring that, OP here gives no specifics. Which phone? Which computer? Damore likely has multiple computers. Does OP mean his work computer? Damore has supposedly mentioned before that his phone acted weird (u/DryTransportation0 claims he remembers something and is searching). So again, this single point which Damore has multiple times himself in this thread tries to play up as significant doesn't seem likely to be new/exclusive information that OP has.EVEN if it is, I don't see how this single piece of luckily guessed info meaningfully means the rest of the post is true.I am sure some corporations have gone to great lengths to discredit employees, but I haven't seen anything here that concretely or uniquely claims to know the situation for Damore at Google, that is remotely the same.
He was a top performer and knew too many compromising secrets, like Dragonfly, the secret censored search project in China
This is bizarre. Almost certainly tons of Google employees know about "many compromising secrets". Wording this this way is meant to make Damore look like a difficult spot for Google for firing, when that just isn't likely to be true. Again, this also isn't new information. NYT on Feb 2018 said he was on Google's search infrastructure team and on work flights to China. Seems easy enough to put together the pieces that it was likely Dragonfly. Also, not everyone in would necessarily know the performance of other employees? It is plausible that OP learned this in a strategy meeting to discredit him, but, OP seems to know A LOT, without substantiating how/why OP should know so much.
Our response after we fired him was equally disgraceful. We were supposed to have a Town Hall TGIF to answer employees' questions about the controversy. However, after questions started coming in that we couldn't reasonably answer, we had to cancel it. We shifted the blame onto "alt-right trolls" and have avoided talking about it openly since then.
This isn't new information, and the reasoning presented doesn't preclude the more benign reasoning, which was that Google canceled it because it was going to cause a lot more noise and really wouldn't address the problems Google wanted to solve, which was the PR crisis Damore was causing with his leaked memo and him causing a huge stir. With literally no proof that any of this reasoning is correct, I don't know why we would side with OP here, in particular given none of the other claims are meaningfully substantiated. OP also doesn't really specify why his role would know so much about all the different internal workings of how Google handled this situation. He just somehow is involved in the "reporting chain from HR", but literally no other info. With no job description or literally anything we are supposed to believe OP was in all the meetings I am sure dozens of people were in trying to decide how to handle the PR nightmare. OP claims to know waaay more about the internal workings of a massive company like Google than his unstated role would suggest is possible, unless he was really high up or literally directing it. Which just isn't likely.
To control the narrative, we planted stories with journalists and flexed Google's muscles where necessary. In exchange for insider access and preferential treatment, all we ask for is their loyalty. For online media, Google's ads pay their paycheck and our search brings their customers, so our influence shouldn't be underestimated.
This is believable, but really not all that interesting. It doesn't prove anything, and is really just a neat narrative Damore's followers will eat right up. It really isn't all that insightful, nor, again, all that exclusive to OP's proclaimed unique knowledge of the situation. However, again, I wonder how OP even knows that Google is basically engaging in extortion. Kind of odd that OP knows about all these crimes, right? Sounds more like OP is just bullshitting because it makes for a nice "Big Evil Google" narrative.
We dealt with his NLRB case in a similar way. People are ultimately lazy, so we found a sympathetic lawyer in the NLRB and wrote the internal NLRB memo for her. No one wanted to spend the effort to oppose it, despite it being laughably weak. Then, after Damore dropped his NLRB case and filed a class action lawsuit, we had the NLRB publicly release their memo. Our PR firms sent press releases saying "the NLRB ruled the firing legal", which was, of course, manufactured bullshit.
WHY WOULD OP KNOW THIS? Again, OP continues to claim deep knowledge of the ENTIRE campaign to discredit Damore? What is OP's role? Why is it so convenient that Google just knows all these people at the NLRB and could so easily shutdown this "very weak case"?And no, his firing being illegal is not an open and shut case. That is just nonsense, but I'll let arbitration the courts finally decide. Kind of interesting timing that this piece comes out BEFORE this is all settled, right?It seems far more likely Damore was fired for causing a huge fucking PR nightmare shitstorm, made worse because he helped make it worse, then when he realized shit was going to come back to him, he started grasping at straws to save face.
(The final and last Pt 3 incoming).
[–]myusername3333 6 points  
(pt 3)
All of our scheming was over the phone, in deleted emails, or through an external PR firm, so we can deny all of it. Now that we've forced him into arbitration, we're close to screwing him over completely.
This is where your bullshit meters should be SCREAMING. How convenient that OP literally can't produce a SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE that they knew anything about the apparently incredibly complex, deep, and VERY WIDE operation to massively discredit Damore. OP claims to have been involved to know ALL THIS about Damore, but has literally nothing to show for it? OP would be a massive, instant hero if they came out about this, but nope, instead we get an anonymous post on some no-nothing subreddit.
OP is full of shit, and this line here is proof that OP has nothing.

Fine, Maybe this Post is Bullshit; Why Make it Then?

There are a variety of reasons. This is over a year after this all exploded, and nobody seems to care anymore. Damore is working through arbitration and likely still paying lawyers fees, which admittedly likely are making it difficult to pay. Coincidentally, his campaign to get more funds to defend him is right in the middle of the campaign. I think it is most likely that Damore wrote this, or he worked with someone else to ghost write this for him. There are plenty of incentives for him to make this up.

Ok, but so what?

Well, OP made this account, then waited three weeks to finally post it. Posted to r/Google, where it of course was then deleted, before posting here. But why not spam this story all over? Wouldn't someone that has a big scoop on the internal workings of Google to such an incredible extent want this to be seen? No, instead OP posts it here, with almost no one to see it, to ensure its "virality" looks natural, like the truth has been hidden. Just comes off as weird.
OP then doesn't respond to any comments, and Damore doesn't bother to confirm if OP actually contacted the lawyer or not. Instead, Damore is the one doing all the answering to questions, which is interesting itself. Damore could easily PM OP to get more info, but either OP hasn't bothered to check in on this, or there is some other explanation why OP isn't responding: because he is the same as Damore.
OP doesn't seem to get any benefit; they don't proclaim any incentive for doing this other than their username, which is just a generic "won't lie for Google anymore". No big sappy story about why they decided to finally come clean? Nothing about OP is given as specific. No date they worked at Google, not whether they left, or really ANYTHING at all.

Yea, so What? It is Probably Kinda True

IF you really want to trust an anonymous piece on the Internet, you are going to have to do better than to just take whatever the fuck someone leaves around and taking it as "well at least some of it has to be true". Someone wrote this for a reason, and if we are wiling to rule out trolling, then there must be other explanations. Once of those POSSIBLE explanations is that Damore wrote this, or had some hand in its creation.
Damore doesn't substantiate any of the claims, doesn't seem to bother giving out most specifics, and when he does here, he mostly harps on the whole "but my phone was slow".
A SINGLE piece of "evidence" about his phone being slow can not possibly hold this whole story up. Assuming Damore didn't write it, we must take the piece as a whole when considering the LIKELIHOOD of it being true. And the piece as a whole is strong of the smell of BULLSHIT.
[–]EdmondDantes777 8 points  
This reads like professional paid for Google shill damage control XD it's even professionally formatted. You are a clown.
[–]myusername3333 0 points  
Ahahah, professionally formatted? Reddit has a built in formatter. Are you fucking serious? It takes a few second to hit bold and such.
You Damore supporters are crazy.
[–]EdmondDantes777 5 points  
Your professionally organized post stands out and it's amusing how defensive you are about this. I'm not a Damore supporter, I was linked to this thread from somewhere else and don't browse this sub.
You write like a shill and behave like a shill, that much is certain at this point.
[–]myusername3333 1 point  
O no, better start behaving differently so I don't come off as a shill.
Otherwise no one will believe me. God, that would be SO AWFUL.
[–]Ryunnsun 1 point  
Pretending like you don't care when you just wrote a 3 part, 3000+ word screed on an internet forum is some of the most asinine, willfully obtuse BS I've seen since I used to frequent /r/politics.
Google - if you're listening (the fuck am I kidding, of course they are) get a better PR firm.
[–]CrowTRobot_SoL 2 points  
Good work. Enjoy the shekels.
[–]torontoLDtutor 1 point  
Damore's "science" has been examined all over, and much of it has been rebutted quite strongly.
Wow you're a fucking idiot.
[–]myusername3333 1 point  
Please, more. Give me more. it makes me stronger.
I NEED....TO FEEEEEEEEEEEEED.
[–]WeThePepe 4 points  
Why not leak the internal emails discussing how to fire/hurt dissenting people?
[–]cagey111 18 points  
Im not buying the original post ... seems too conveniently coreographed ... after all: whats in it for you? And, its been years, so why the sudden rush to "cleanse"? Where were you when he most nedded you? Degenerate!
[–]Noremacam 13 points  
Could be an ex-googler? Now doesn't have anything to lose?
[–]yelloWhit 3 points  
What if Demore wasn’t OP’s breaking point. What if there’s something else going on at Google? This person actually said something. Most haven’t. Chastising those who come forth & sound the alarm for the rest of us is the best way to deter anyone from doing the right thing by following their lead.
[–]kamtsa 18 points  
Doesn't look legit. Too generic.
Change my mind with a proof.
[–]plasmarob 17 points  
Damore just confirmed here he was one of only a few who knew of Dragonfly.
[–]kamtsa -13 points  
How did you determine that u/JamesDamore is James Damore?
[–]plasmarob 27 points  
He did the AMA on this sub at the time and place James Damore said he would on his verified Twitter account.
Skepticism is not a substitute for basic research ability kiddo.
And it's with an underscore btw.
[–]kamtsa -6 points  
> He did the AMA on this sub at the time and place James Damore said he would on his verified Twitter account.
Link to twitter where verified Damore says he is the moderator?
[–]plasmarob 16 points  
No, skim the u/James_Damore profile yourself.
[–]EdmondDantes777 2 points  
Looks very legit. you deny it because it says things that are uncomfortable for you to contemplate.
[–]kamtsa 1 point  
Rubbish. It's too good to be true. You are derailing Damore's cause for a lawful and fair workplace.
[–]Useful_Vidiots 3 points  
People are ultimately lazy
A huge truth.
[–]markdj57 3 points  
At the time I could see the obvious media bias and witch hunt going on both within and outside of Google. Sundar Pichai lost all my respect after this, nevermind the closing of Google+, Allo, Inbox and Hangouts - he needs to step down.
[–]CommonConspiracy 2 points  
What PR firm?
[–]MBKUltra 2 points  
Bring it on. Thank you OP for your guilt-ridden post.
[–]RedSocks157 2 points  
I was linked here, and this basically confirms all of my worst fears about Google as a company...I love the products so much, but if people don't start speaking up in there then this is only the beginning.
[–]s0lidsneak 2 points  
So when is the representative who lied under oath going to be charged for lying about Dragonfly :)?
[–]BlueTeamMember 1 point  
Wow an "orgy of evidence", well here is another line from another Tom Cruise movie.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I KNOW IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT I CAN PROVE!
We all hope you're the real Colonel Markinson and that you stay away from pearl handled things.
[–]Brethern345 1 point  
Water is shamed it showed you its path and you all went lower.
[–]21210019 1 point